Pursuing Redemption
Welcome home where healing and restoration is celebrated in stories from those who have walked through fire and come out on the other side. Welcome to the Pursing Redemption podcast with Heather Shore. #innerhealing #deliverance #jesus #holyspirit #god
Pursuing Redemption
Training Believers to Break Ungodly Oppression with Frank and Kristy Wentz
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Frank and Kristy Wentz and I have an amazing discussion around healing and deliverance and how the church is missing the mark for the body of Christ. In order to walk in abundance, we need all three - counseling, inner healing and deliverance. We also speak about post-deliverance work and how they are equipping people to walk out their freedom. Their story will encourage you to chase after the freedom set before us.
Frank and Kristy Wentz were called into ministry in 2020 when confronted with the demonic oppression of a family member. When they could not find a church in their area to help break this, they began to pray asking for Gods help and direction. With faith, prayer, and research they confronted the evil and through the power of Christ, they were able to break the oppression. They soon found themselves helping break oppression off other family members, then friends, and then friends of friends. After hundreds of deliverances, they knew their calling was not only to help deliver people, but to also train others to help set people free through Christ. Finding Freedom was created to provide Christ centered deliverance to Christians dealing with oppression and to train individuals and churches in deliverance.
Luke 10:19 "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."
Follow along at Instagram @restoringministriesok or Facebook @restoringministriesok. To learn more, check out heathervshore.com.
Frank and Christy Wentz grew up a fundamental independent Baptist attending conservative Christian schools and were married in nineteen ninety five, having two children, Taylor and Frank. Soon after they were married, they became very involved in ministry. Frank served in the music ministry and Christy served in mobs. Throughout the years, their conservative religious views began to give way to the works of the spirit as they began to see miraculous events take place in their lives. In 2018, Christy was diagnosed with stage four bladder cancer and completely healed from the inside out. In 2020, their daughter Taylor was demonically oppressed and completely delivered and set free. Their spirit-led vision is to see networks of local churches nationally and globally be trained in deliverance and inner healing ministries, being birthed around the world and seeing Mark at 1617 come true.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Pursuing Redemption Podcast with Heather Shore.
SPEAKER_01We were actually both raised fundamental independent Baptist.
SPEAKER_08Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. I accepted Christ when I was in kindergarten, probably K5, and had a missionary show up at the at the school. We were in a I was in a Christian monastery school, and um she gave the testimony of Christ dying on the cross. And I remember vividly went up front and was crying as a little kid and you know asked Christ to be my savior. I actually got saved before my parents did, and uh and then they they accepted Christ a few years later in uh in a fundamental independent Baptist church, and and that's how my journey through through all of this started was was when I was five.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and my testimony is uh kind of similar to his, except um I was I was between five and six, and um we had missions week at our church, and like you said, we were both raised fundamental independent Baptists, and um we always looked forward to missions week at church, and I just remember the pastor um giving the plan of salvation, and um I it had really been on my heart all week as the different speakers from all over the world, the missionaries from all over the world would share that at the end of each service, um, at the end, for you to come forward if you felt like you know you wanted to be a child of God. And um that the one night that I went forward, um one of the pastors prayed with me and um I accepted Christ. And so that was my journey as I began as a child. Um, I was my parents thankfully were um I was already in church, um, but they were waiting for me to um be ready to accept Jesus. So they weren't pushing me, um, but the missions, the missionary, um, it just really got my heart that night and um when I got saved, and that was my beginning of my journey, and um kind of rededicated my life and and in college. Um just got more serious about my relationship with the Lord, but that's kind of how my how it started.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, that's a great start. I love it when you start young.
SPEAKER_04Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. Well, we'll hop right into some of these uh questions here because you guys have quite the testimony. Would love to hear about Christie's healing from bladder cancer. I mean, that's it's pretty amazing. Do you mind sharing that story?
SPEAKER_04Sure, yes. So, so um five years ago, I um was having uh back pain and uh went to the doctor, thought I had kidney stones, um, which is normal, typical side effect from um having back pain, and they thought I had kidney stones, and um, after a few months ended up going to a specialist, which was my urologist, and they stood they took more tests, and I found out that I had a baseball-sized tumor in my bladder. Um, so fast forward, um, they did surgery um and um I went through chemo, went through all the treatments.
SPEAKER_01Well, it had gone through the bladder wall.
SPEAKER_04Right. We didn't know at that point what stage it was until they did more testing, and that was right at stage four bladder cancer.
SPEAKER_01It had traveled all through your lymph, her lymph nodes. Yes, it was moving across the body.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes. So they were like, Well, we're gonna get on this right away. So I had um the first surgery was where they removed the tumor, they went in and shaved away the baseball size tumor, and then at that at that point, right after that surgery, the doctor says, Well, I hate to tell you this, but your bladder was destroyed with that tumor attached to it, so we're gonna have to take the bladder out and we're gonna have to reconstruct a new bladder. And I was like, What? So, yeah, and so I was like, Okay, so he referred me to a surgeon, and the surgeon um he was wonderful. Um, he told me what he was gonna do. They took three feet of my own intestinal material. Um, it's really cool how God makes the body because your bladder is made from the same material as your intestinal material, it expands and contracts. And so, um I just took three feet of the intestines and built a new bladder for me, and um, the old bladder came out with 36 lymph nodes, and um, yeah, put a new bladder in, and um yeah, I mean I'm just so thankful. So, this this whole process from the time I found out I had cancer until the time I had my surgery, and the doctor walked in to tell me what my pathology report said, it was six months, so this was all like a whirlwind from you know the first surgery to chemo to um the second surgery, which was the final reconstructive surgery, and then the doctor was like, Yeah, we're gonna go and plan the next year treatment because when you come out of surgery, there's always residual cancer, so we're gonna go ahead and plan your next year treatment. So I was like, Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01She was only given a 15% chance of survival.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and they they they told her they said, We're gonna we're gonna put you through treatment, and after you go through treatment and you're going through the surgery, your treatment's gonna continue.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And basically they they planned out her treatment until she died. And and that was what you know the whole diagnosis was. It moved through the lymph nodes, um, and and they said, This is just gonna go across your body, and yeah, you know, we're gonna do immunotherapy, and we're gonna do this and this, wherever it shows up. And so they just they had planned out everything until she passed away. And so that was that was the news that we had gotten.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So, well, let me tell the story about your mom.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01So okay. So Christy was a Christian school teacher for years, and um, I'd been in music ministry, I was a guitar player, and and you know, yeah, so I I we had we had we had gone the full realm from Fundamental Independent Baptist. I went to Pensacola Christian College. Oh, I've heard of it, yeah. Yeah, separate elevators for guys and girls. You know, like like Bob Jones University is a lot like that. And and then we came out, we ended up in Southern Baptist churches, then non-denominational, and as worship became a big part of our lives, you know, we we moved into spirit-filled churches, and and you know, God changed things through our lives.
SPEAKER_04We were always wanting more. We were wanting more. We were like, God, we just we know there's more, you have more for us.
SPEAKER_01And so in the process of all that, she was a Christian school teacher, and and Christy was that teacher that students go back and say, you know, Miss Wentz, oh, she just had a profound effect on my life. She was an art teacher.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_08Oh and so my daughter wants to be an art teacher.
SPEAKER_04Oh, it's the best job in the world, it's a great job.
SPEAKER_01So when this happened, there were thousands of people praying for her. Yes, you know, and about well, I guess it was about three weeks before your surgery, her her mom had been praying for you for her. Have you ever heard of sea glass? Okay, sea glass is pieces of glass that break off ships and bottles and trash, and it rolls around the ocean floor, and eventually it'll wash up on the beach and it looks like tumbled glass. It's from shipwrecks, like off the coastline. And so um, she was in the outer banks of North Carolina where there it's a graveyard of the Atlantic, there's lots of shipwrecks and trash. Um, and so we we had all been praying that she would be healed, and her mom had been praying. Her mom makes jewelry out of the sea glass um that washes up on the shore, and that's a big thing on the coastline is making like sea glass jewelry. Well, she had been praying that God would give her a sign that that her daughter would be healed, and um that she would be okay, that she would be cured.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so she was walking down the beach, and you have to walk down the beach and find it, picking it up. And I'm gonna see if I can show you guys this. She reaches down right before she gets ready to leave a few weeks before the surgery to see if that'll show up. Can you see what that says? Bladder cure. It's a piece of glass that washed up at her mom's feet. That literally said bladder cure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01In thousands of miles of beaches, the one woman whose daughter had bladder cancer has a piece of glass wash up at her mom's feet that says bladder cure, and that's when um three weeks later she had her her surgery. The chance of this happening, that bottle is is impossible. That bottle is from um the mid-1800s, like a snake wool salesman would sell these things. Really? Yeah, and it busted in the ocean, washed around the ocean for 150 years.
SPEAKER_04Broke off just like that for my mom.
SPEAKER_01And you never find anything with writing on it.
SPEAKER_04No, no, she's never found a piece that big with specific writing on it. Like she's gotten bottle pieces with like partial words, but that one was that was literally straight from the Lord saying, Your daughter's gonna be okay. And then I went through surgery, came out, my pathology report was you're never gonna believe this. My doctor walks in my my room that night at seven something at night.
SPEAKER_01So they wait, so there's always residual cancer left.
SPEAKER_04There is, there is.
SPEAKER_01Because they took out her bladder and 36 lymph nodes.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And they know that there's gonna be cancer left there and they're gonna see where it's traveled.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so anyway, the doctor walks in my room that night and he goes, Well, uh, well, do you want to hear some good news? And I'm like, Well, yes. And so, um, anyway, he said, There is no residual cancer found anywhere. He starts reading the seven-page report to me, and I'm like, Okay, talk to me in my language. I'm not medical. I'm not like a medical doctor, I'm a teacher, you know. And so he's like, There's no can't, there's no residual cancer found in the bladder that I took out. There's no residual cancer found in the 36 lymph nodes I took out. Like he was just reading over and over all the things, and I'm like, oh my goodness. And I said, So that means there's none, there's none left. He goes, No, but I'm telling you, is there's no cancer found. There's no cancer. And I was like, I just sat there and I just started bawling. And I was like, thank you, Lord, thank you, Lord. I mean, it was just a miracle. My mom was there with me too, and we were just both balls, bawling, and just thanking the Lord. And I said, I gotta play this song. One of the songs that um really touched my heart and was like my song, just like God gives you verses and things in scripture to get you through seasons in life, was the song by Carrie Job called My Healer. It it says, I believe you're my healer. I believe you're all that I need. Like the the verses in that song were speaking to me like that was my song. I was believing that God was gonna be my healer, and he did. And I played it in my room that night, and I was playing the nurses came in and I was bawling and they thought something was wrong. And I'm like, No, if you don't believe in God, uh you have to believe in God because he healed me. Like, I you see, you can look at my report, and yeah, I shouldn't, I this shouldn't not even be. It's God, he just did all this. So it was amazing.
SPEAKER_01Of course, I meet with the doctors at the and and I was her advocate all the way through everything. And so we meet with the doctors, and I said, Okay, and they tell tell us the whole thing, tell me the whole thing. And I said, Okay, what's the next next course of action? Is it is it um immunotherapy? Is it yeah, and uh I I I'm almost arguing with them about their treatment, which is foolish because God has healed her. Yeah, and then finally the doctor looks at me, he says, Mr. Witz, I can I do anything for your wife. She doesn't have cancer. She's healed. We have no treatments for her, there's nothing we can do. We can't do anything.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it was amazing.
SPEAKER_01And that was over five years ago. Yeah, and so that that's a story in our life, but we really don't even consider it. She's you know, she had scans and all that stuff, you know, that they put you through for years. And um that we really don't even think about it that much until somebody asks us about it.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, that's a great story, it's such an encouraging story for people to hear. Yeah, it's amazing. I love that bottle example though. It just shows you how how cool God is.
SPEAKER_01That's that's there's no chance that could ever happen. No, that was just thousands of miles a beach for a piece of glass to break that says bladder cure that washes up in her mom's feet.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No chance.
SPEAKER_04It's crazy. It's really amazing.
SPEAKER_08Well, maybe let's transition a little bit and talk about the crazy story with your daughter. Yes, and how all of this really came about of you guys starting finding freedom ministries was because of what your daughter was going through.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Go ahead. Yes, he's good at telling this.
SPEAKER_01So my daughter's amazingly creative. Uh, she was on scholarship at Liberty University for music, a phenomenal songwriter, almost like a child prodigy writing music and was involved with worship. From the time she was 12, she went through all kinds of rage and anger issues, and we put her in Christian psychotherapy. She had been on different medications.
SPEAKER_04She'd been bullied, she'd been kicked at. I mean, all the things that kids go through.
SPEAKER_01At 15, she tried to commit suicide. She took a bottle of ibuprofen and a bottle of Tylenol and almost almost died.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And um, as she she went to college, she went to Liberty on scholarship, and as Chris Christy found out that she was dealing with cancer, she ended up leaving college and coming home. And anyway, through life, she she ended up um not living with us. How old was Taylor when all that happened?
SPEAKER_0418 or 19. 19, 19, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, so she comes back home one day um to visit us and she's doing these weird things, and she had kind of gone off the deep end and was just living as part of the world.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What what was she she was manifesting demonically when she came to her house?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, she was yelping like like yep, like in jolting her body. And I've like, I was like, what is that? And I said, I'm not upset with you, honey. I just need you to be honest with me. What have you smoked? What have you taken? What have you drank? Just tell me I don't care. I need you to be honest right now. And she's like, Mom, I promise I haven't taken or smoked anything. This has been going on for the last day, and I don't know what it is. And it was because she was manifesting demonically.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, you know, so yeah, it was crazy.
SPEAKER_01So we had a how long was Frank? 14? 15. 15. We had a 15-year-old son in the house. And I was always taught, you know, you just leave this stuff alone. You don't want to open yourself up to this because it's just evil. And so we told her, we don't know what to do. Growing up, we had played praise music, put scripture, we had scripture taped all over her walls.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We did everything we could to fight against Satan. Yes. Um, that, you know, what you know to do. And we said, You you can't you can't stay here, and and I can't have this in my house because it terrified me. And um, so she went to stay with some relatives, and it got worse. And they called a pastor in and they prayed over her, and she foamed at the mouth and writhed all over the bed, and they I tried to read scripture, and it got worse.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And we started praying. Uh, Lord, show me what to do. I don't know what to do. How do I help my daughter?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01And um, I was driving one day, it was it was almost a week later, and it was just getting worse and worse, and nobody knew what to do. And I said, Lord, just please show me what to do. And I just hear the Holy Spirit say, Well, you YouTube how to do everything else when you need to learn how to do it. Why don't you YouTube this? I'm like, really? So I YouTube how to cast out a demon, and I get this little squirrely dude named Isaiah Saldavar that shows up on there, and I had never heard of this guy before. He had a few hundred followers.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, literally, it was like two to three hundred followers back then.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I'm like, and he plays, I watch this video. I'm like, Christians can have demonic oppression?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, I didn't that that was the most bizarre thing to me in the world because Christians obviously couldn't have any demonic oppression. Um, and so I watched that and I come home, Christy gets off work. This was four and a half years ago, the night before Halloween. And I planned for her and I said, This is crazy. Christians can have demonic oppression, and he tells how, you know, told how it could happen.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I said, Well, I said, if she calls, let we're gonna try to go do this and help her.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01It was an hour later.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, she's she called and said, Dad, please come help. Please come help me. And so we drove down to where she was staying, and we went down and we were like, Okay, try to, you know, make sure you get a notebook and start writing down, and just you need to ask God to forgive you for if if it for any unforgiveness.
SPEAKER_01Unconfessed sin.
SPEAKER_04Any un unconfessed sin, just get with the Lord and just laying that laying that all down. Because you you we can't, you know, we can't cast out a demon. We didn't know it was different demons at the time, but we can't cast anything out if there's a legal right, meaning the unconfessed sinner or you know, any of that stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if they have a right to be there. Yeah. And all this was new to us. We had never heard of it. No. So we're watching these videos on the way down. Okay, she needs to forgive everybody, break soul ties, break soul ties, any connections with people, yes, um, confess any unconfessed sins. Yeah. And when I get there, she told me, she told me when I came up in the house, she goes, Everything knows that you're here. They all knew as soon as you pulled up, everything in me knew.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_01She couldn't even see we pulled up, but everything knew that we were there.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they just went berserk. And as we got there and and she forgave people, and we made, you know, went through some of this stuff we just didn't even know we were doing. All of a sudden she starts going, This is all your fault. This is all because of you. And I looked at her, I said, In the name of Jesus, anxiety. I want to talk to you right now. You're gonna come up to the front. And she got her head twisted and she looks at me and she goes, What do you want? Yeah. And I said, You're gonna leave in the name of Jesus, you're gonna go right now into the pit. And I didn't know what I was doing, neither one of us did. And I said, Get out of her now. I cast you out, get out of her. And she she went out, and and and we helped her. She she laid down on the ground and she looked, and the demon had gone, it left.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and then we were like, Oh my goodness, this is this this is real and this works. What in the world? We had no idea.
SPEAKER_07And then she tried to speak, and she goes, she couldn't open her mouth.
SPEAKER_01And I'm going, what I said, let her mouth go in the name of Jesus. And she goes, Yeah. It was a deaf and dumb spirit, yeah. And we cast that out. And then it starts going, I'm gonna kill her, I'm gonna kill her. And I the Holy Spirit just starts flowing in us. I'm like, you're suicide in the name of Jesus, you're gonna leave her now. Yes, and we cast out suicide, and then fear came up, and fear's going, no, no, no, don't make me leave, no, no. Demons, their attributes a lot of times, will will be how they will react with a manifestation. So fear a lot of times is scared, right? They didn't want to leave, and so we cast fear out. This went on till four in the morning. Now it's Halloween, and we're we're casting one demon out of another. Halloween. You know, how in the world God just throws you with the craziest things, you know? And so that's what happened. And we we we hit the one, there's always one that's a strong man, it's the one that's in charge. They all come in groups, but there's always one that's in charge, and that's the one we hit. And it I didn't know how to get rid of it. It was it was strong. Now it comes out like clockwork, it's yeah. But then I didn't know what to do. And so Christy spent the night. I went back home to let the dog out, and where my son was, we were about an hour away. And I came back the next day. We brought her home, and this continued for um her her deliverance. Continue for a few weeks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01In the midst of that, she starts calling out stuff in me. She goes, Dad, I think you have anger. I'm like, honey, I'm good. I have nothing. You know, I don't know why you're saying that. And she starts calling out anger in the name of Jesus. You're going to come out of him. You get up to the front. And I start shaking uncontrollably. And I'm like, what in the world is going on? It took me two days and I cast it out of myself. And then her and my son go after Christy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I start laughing uncontrollably, and I'm like, this is so weird. Why am I laughing? This isn't even me. And I just couldn't quit laughing, and I couldn't quit laughing.
SPEAKER_01The kids are getting mad.
SPEAKER_04And I didn't know that was a manifestation. Well, it was Jezebel. And so the kids are like trying to cast this demon out of me. My kids are both standing over me, and I'm just like, I don't even know why I'm laughing. And the kids are like, It's not you, Mom. It's the demon inside of you. And I was like, What? Anyway, it was just so all of it was so foreign to us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Jezebel always manifests with crazy witch laughter. We had a pastor last week that manifests with witch laughter.
SPEAKER_07He did.
SPEAKER_01We do deliver some pastors all the time.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I mean, yeah, it's just a common thing. They'll start laughing uncontrollably. And it it is funny because it it's just the demon manifesting. They're like, why am I laughing uncontrollably?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So that's how all this started with us. And then we had friends coming over.
SPEAKER_04And then it was friends, it was uh family, it was churches started calling us, and then different people would hear about us at other churches in the area. Then it started being people from out of state. So now it's like people from all over the country are calling us, and we're like, okay, here we go.
SPEAKER_01We have around, I don't know, it's 40-50 people that are involved with our ministry now. We have a deliverance intake coordinator, we have a post-deliverance pastor, we have deliverance teams.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, but our real calling isn't isn't to do deliverance. We really believe deliverance should be done in the church.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01And so it's like it's like fishing or teaching somebody to fish.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you can you can teach somebody to fish and they're gonna they're gonna catch fish after fish. So if we can teach churches to do this, yes, then that's where this needs to be.
SPEAKER_04It does. Just like inner healing, same thing. Inner healing is just a piece of it. There's like inner healing, discipleship, and deliverance. It's it's three things really that should all be in the church and part of the church.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this is just a small piece of it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, this is just a small little piece.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. So I'm wondering, you're that's one of the questions that we were going to talk about is how do you guys go about training up churches and church leaders and and what sort of opposition have you faced? I've personally been listening to a couple podcasts this week about different people that are arguing that you know, deliverance ministry is not valid. I'll just put it that way.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah, we hear we've heard that.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, and those people that say that, we say, Have you ever cast a demon out? Have you ever had somebody man up right in front of your face? Well, no, okay. Well, you don't really understand it unless it's happened to you.
SPEAKER_01We record most you know, we record most of our deliverances.
SPEAKER_04We do, we do.
SPEAKER_01I mean, we have hundreds and hundreds of hours of deliverances.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01One demon after another manifesting. And so I used to try to convince people that Christians can have demons.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's really hard for me even to care about convincing people because it's becoming so prevalent now. It is. It's it's it is. I mean, it it's one person after another. It's just yeah, evil is getting so much worse in our world.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so for training, um, gosh, when we started this, we ended up, Christy and I would do deliverance sessions. We would do two a day, um, two, three, sometimes four times a week. So, I mean, yeah, yeah, we've we've done over a thousand deliverances, and yeah, so and our our ministry is based on Don Dickerman's ministry, um, who's in Texas. And we're really good friends with their ministry, and and I I spoke there the last couple conferences, and um, we're on the phone with Don's assistant all the time, Cherie. Yeah, she's great. They're wonderful. And so we kind of took where they because they've done Don's done 30,000 deliverances. Yeah, they've done over 30,000 deliverances, and so we've taken all their information and then God's just added to it. And so we have a training manual that's free online. We all of our stuff is free. I don't sell it because we want everybody to have this. I never want anybody to be in the situation where we we call church after church. I couldn't get anybody to help us with that.
SPEAKER_04Nobody, nobody in our area knew what to do with what was going on with our daughter. And so that's one thing that we want to make sure that any training material that we have, or even referring other people, like other books that other people have written, um, you know, like Derek Prince, Don Dickerman. I mean, there's lots of great pastors out there that have wonderful resources, getting people to the resources or the people that they need to help them because we were in a situation where nobody would help us. And finally, Frank found somebody that would help us. So we had to learn on our own.
SPEAKER_08The local churches in your area wouldn't help you?
SPEAKER_04Nope.
SPEAKER_08Or they just didn't know what to do.
SPEAKER_04They didn't know what to do. Pastors are terrified. There was one church that he was able to take our take her to, and they said, Well, you can bring her here and we will pray over her. And they prayed over her and she left, and she was still the same.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, she was worse.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, she was. But but as far as training churches, yes, we we feel the calling to train churches, equip churches, um, you know, so that they don't have to face what we face when somebody is at their church or in there there's somebody manifesting, they're able to say, Oh, these people know how to deal with that. And they, you know, if there's a prayer room or whatever, they're able to help that person and help the need, whatever that need is for that person, you know.
SPEAKER_01So Christy and I were very alone in this ministry for a long time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, for a while.
SPEAKER_01And and then um it it just it's as we ministered to person after person, it began to grow. And it was churches all over Hampton Roads. Yes. And then pastors began to call, and we want this training in our church, and then we would we would come in, we would train the church, and um we would like Christian Embassy was the first one. We went in, they said we want our young people trained. Yes, and so we sat there with the young people the first night, and the pastor, Pastor Rodika, goes, Can you show us an example of what deliverance looks like? I'm like, right here? She's like, Yeah, yeah. And so I said, Okay, is anybody dealing with something? A couple kids raised their hand. Yeah, one raised his hand and said, I'm dealing with anxiety. And I said, Okay, yeah, and I said, Close your eyes. And I just looked across the room, and it's that disaffected. I said, In the name of Jesus, anxiety, come up to the front. And he just goes berserk laughing, and just goes, Yeah, he just manifested as soon as that was in the youth, I mean, like the young people's. Yeah, and that wrecked everything. They all wanted to know how to cast, and we just cast it out, no big deal. And so it started there, and then they said, Can you train the church? So we did five weeks of training for the church, and then that became part of the church culture, and then it's gone from one church to another.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Now we have pastor call pastors call us. We have pastors of big Baptist churches call us because they don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They have members that are their kids are manifesting because the kids have gotten in.
SPEAKER_04I mean, the kids have gotten into witchcraft or new age or whatever, and the kids manifesting and they don't know, they're like, Call these people, they know what to do.
SPEAKER_01So, what we do is, yeah, we'll go into a church like we just did one, and we just did a basic overview, um, like a half-day session of understanding how Christians can have demonic oppression and where that oppression can be. Um, is it trauma? Is it um lust? Is it fear? Is it destruction? Is it um you know abuse? Those are big ones, and though that'll be a big group. A lot of times a strong man will be there. And I tell people we're kind of like farmers. We go around, we plant seeds, yeah, and then you do that, and people will start researching it. Yeah, and of course, you got Salvador and Vlad and Signorelli and all these guys that are really, you know, pushing all this stuff now. And we tell everybody go on the internet, watch all these guys and start educating yourself. Yes, and as they start educating themselves, then the pastors and everybody's like, Well, can you can you come back and show us how to do deliverance? Can you show us how to do deliverance sessions? And we continue with that training. Yeah, so that that's kind of what our calling is, is to train these churches.
SPEAKER_08Yes. So I guess one thing I'm wondering is why do you think God is waking up the church? And do you believe Satan really honestly lulled the Western church asleep in order to bring about just chaos? Because I feel like our church in the West, I'm gonna use quotations in the West, yeah, operates very differently than like the underground churches in the the rest of the world where they know and see Jesus, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Satan's running out of time. Yeah, yeah, it's getting really close.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and and there's more evil that's being, you know, it it's it's everywhere. It's on the TV, it's on the movies, it's in the music, it's on the videos that these kids are watching on YouTube and on TikTok. It's just the evil is just right there in your face, right there. You know, like kids can YouTube how to cast spells. It's all every it's on YouTube, it's on TikTok, it's everywhere. And these kids are getting into it. This the 20, 30 years ago, none of this was around, you know. So there's more satanic things.
SPEAKER_01It's this.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's the phone, it's the electronics.
SPEAKER_01This is the biggest gateway in the world.
SPEAKER_04It is.
SPEAKER_01It's a gateway to everything. It is from witchcraft, from spells.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's pocket porn.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So you can that have a 12-year-old boy. Now, I'm 54 years old. Growing up, when I was 12 years old, if I wanted to look at pornography or somebody my age, it was almost impossible. I mean, you couldn't go into a store and buy it. Now imagine when I was 12 years old, if my parents gave me a Playboy magazine, I put it in my pocket and said, they said, son, put that in your pocket. I want you to keep it with you all the time, but don't look at it. Yeah, you just carry it around. And I expect you to be a strong Christian and do not look at that Playboy. But I want you to carry it around everywhere you go. And we're gonna let you live with this Playboy now the entire time you grow up. That's what we're doing with our children.
SPEAKER_08I know. Mine are little, and so I've told them they can't have a cell phone until 14.
SPEAKER_01That's a good parent. It it's what it is, but now they'll open that up and they're watching stuff maybe with men and women at first, and then it gets perverted, and it goes with men and women, and then it gets even worse. And so that that whole gateway of weird sexual perversion is becoming incredibly prevalent now. Yeah. But as they open up that phone, then demonic entities of sexual perversion and and gender confusion and all these things are filtered right into the person, and it's just becoming part of society because the telephone. Satan is not stupid. If you're doing the same job for 20 years, you think, man, I'm really good at my job. What if you did the same job for 10,000 years?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And we think we're gonna come along and outsmart Satan. These these demons have been doing the same thing, they've been operating in fear and anxiety and all these things for thousands of years. Yeah, and so they're just developing new tactics with electronics. And yeah, yeah, it's it's blowing society wide open and the stuff we fight against now. Witchcraft is cool for kids. And if you want a spell, here, let's just look it up. Let's look up a love spell because I like this kid. And all of a sudden, it's a few of them, they're like, that would be cool. Let's let's form a coven and we'll do some stuff. This happens to us, and then the parents call and they're like, My daughter's in a coven. Can you help break around?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we've had that happen. Uh, there was a church locally that called us, and this teenager was in, they said she was dabbling, quote, in witchcraft. Well, they didn't realize she was legit part of a coven, and she was only ninth grade in the local school. And so I got we got her on the phone, and it was, yeah, it was crazy. And I said, I said, honey, I said, you know, I've been teaching teenagers for a really long time. And I said, you know, I just, I just need you to be honest with me. You know, what all, you know, have you been doing? And, you know, and and I said, I said, and these group of girls that you're, you know, um doing some of this witchcraft stuff with, you know, um, have you ever done like a blood oath? And like I started asking her the questions. I mean, because we prayed, we were like, Holy Spirit, you're gonna just have to help us with this because we don't know what we're doing with this. This is like a big thing. And the Holy Spirit just showed up and was helping us ask questions and really pinpoint what was going on.
SPEAKER_01Well, I was casting demons out of her.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Each one was manifesting and talking to her. This works over the phone the same way it does in real life.
SPEAKER_04So but it was crazy. The girl admitted, yes, I was in a coven and she had done blood oaths with these girls, and she was in deep. But the cool thing was was just previously that week on Sunday at church, she gave her life to Christ. And so that whole coven, this was on a Thursday. They were coming after her. There was things swirling around their house. Literally, there was things flying around their house, and the dad caught us desperate. What do I do? What do I do? And then we find out she had a satanic Bible under her bed. I was like, Oh my goodness, there's your portal.
unknownYeah, Chris.
SPEAKER_04Holy Spirit tells Christie. She's like, I'm like, the Holy Spirit is telling me, you have something in your room and it's so evil, and it's under your bed. Can you go get it out? Like, literally, the Holy Spirit was showing me, and I was like, This is crazy. I'm thinking the whole time, this is just crazy. I've never done this in my life. And this this girl comes back in the room and hands it to her dad, and he goes, Oh my gosh, this is a satanic Bible. I said, You need to get that thing as far away from your house right now as you can. So, yeah, it was that's just one of the times we've had it's just crazy stuff that happens.
SPEAKER_01We could sit here for 10 hours and tell you story after story. Yeah, I was. This is what's happening with our our teenagers. The evil is real. Yes, it's real, it's very real.
SPEAKER_08Well, I mean, that goes sort of a little bit into my next question is you have something which I had never heard of before, and I thought it was I honestly thought it was awesome because I always come back to this question of discipleship. So tell us about the post-deliverance pastors that you have through your ministry, and just really you still got to live this out, right? Like you've gotten rid of the demons, you still gotta figure out well, like how do I now live in this new reality of what God's showing me of what freedom is, but you have to walk it out. So, how does that discipleship work?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01So casting out demons is easy. I mean, it's really you figure out what the legal rights is, and like Don Dickerman said, it's the it's a truth encounter, not a power encounter.
SPEAKER_07Right.
SPEAKER_01So you break those legal rights and you understand how to make it leave, and it it's not a big deal. The hard part is living free. Yes, tell her about David.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so David is wonderful. He is our post-deliverance pastor, David Foote. Yes, David Foote. And he um he was a missionary to China, he's also been a pastor of a church, he's got a lot of experience, he has his master's in counseling.
SPEAKER_01So he um He was an ordained Baptist, or he is an ordained Baptist pastor. He is, he is, and who got wrecked after deliverance.
SPEAKER_04He is, yes. The Lord has really just just done so much in his life, and so he wanted to be a part of our ministry, and um his passion was discipling people and really counseling people, and so we were like, you know, we're getting all these phone calls after deliverance, and these people are having a hard time, like you said, walking it out. And so we said, you know, how would you feel about doing um like discipleship like post-deliverance to help someone, you know, that may be struggling with these things that are learned behaviors because we have learned behaviors that we've lived with and we've been doing our whole lives. Then we go through deliverance and we're like, yes, the oppression is gone and we're free, but staying free of those old um learned behaviors and mindsets, that's a whole nother thing, like you said. Um, how do you keep your freedom and how do you stay discipled? Well, we we make sure that first of all, when somebody comes through deliverance, they are already in a church and they're grounded in their church. They're not just like, oh yeah, I go to church like once a year, like Easter and Christmas or whatever. They would not be a candidate for deliverance with our ministry because we found through experience that if someone's not grounded in their church, you know, going, you know, weekly, bi-weekly, and involved in maybe Bible study as well, and they're not getting discipled, then that's where the they're gonna open doors and they're gonna go back to those old ways and those old behaviors. So, what David does is he gets with them and he talks to them about basically, who are you in Christ? Let me tell you who you are in Christ. This is what the word says, and this is who you are in Christ. So all those old lies of the enemy are gone. So this is what you're now speaking over yourself. I am this, I am this, I am this. So he goes through and he gives them, you know, um, he'll meet with them, you know, three months, six months, however long it takes. He's just very dedicated to making sure the person um understands who they are in Christ and just staying free and walking out that freedom. So that's what he does, and it's it's just been the biggest blessing of all.
SPEAKER_01Once again, this is a ministry of the church.
SPEAKER_04It is. It is.
SPEAKER_01Honestly, we shouldn't be doing this.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, the church should already have a ministry of the church. We should have 50 churches in our area all doing this. Yes.
SPEAKER_01They they should be operating in inner healing and counseling, they should be operating in deliverance, and and deliverance is kind of like um it's like a medical treatment. There's lots of different types of deliverance.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there is.
SPEAKER_01So when you go into an ER, um if you're bleeding profusely, they're gonna throw you in triage and they're gonna stop the bleeding.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Now, not everybody needs that. Sometimes you got a cold and you don't need to go to the ER, you just need to go to the urgent care center to get a treatment. Sometimes you need to go to your family doctor to be diagnosed with stuff. Then there are times that you really need to go into surgery. And if you're going into surgery, the prep for surgery is major. They're gonna put you through all kinds of stuff, they're gonna make you sign paperwork, they're gonna make you read everything. So, with deliberates, um, like Saldivar and Vlad, all these guys, when they're doing conference conferences, they're doing triage. People that are coming up to the altar that are dealing with stuff, they're trying to stop the bleeding. They're casting out that demon. Churches should be the ones that are doing um the doctor's visit. They should be doing urgent care where they're in triage, where they're breaking stuff off at the altar. They're helping these people work through this, yeah. They're training them in inner healing and how to break their learned behaviors, they're discipling these people.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Then there are ministries like ours that do surgery.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01And when it's bad, it's a whole process of going through this whole thing. Yeah. And we're gonna go really deep. In our ministry, we try and we do not do inner healing and deliverance together because I don't think you can be good at it. They're two separate things. They are two separate separate things, and I don't think you can be good at it all. Yeah, and I think there's a lot of inner healing ministries, but there's also a lot of pastors that don't know what to do with the demon. And with theophostics, a lot of times they're pulling up trauma and they're putting Christ in the center of the trauma and showing what that Christ was there all along, but they're not casting out the demon. Yeah, you've got to get rid of the demon attached to the trauma as well as put Christ in the center. So it's the whole package of all this. It's all of it. You know, you have to crucify the flesh, you have to tear down strongholds, you have to cast out demons. Yes. And churches have to understand that that this was Christ's ministry. And when you do all that stuff, we see crazy healings all the time. Yeah. I mean, people healed of can't man, stage four cancer. Yes, we've seen lots of people healed from stage four cancer. We've seen it.
SPEAKER_08Isn't that wild? It's so amazing. I mean, yeah. It'll come out of them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, one kid he was healed, he was in college, he was a freshman in college, and after the deliverance, he was healed from scoliosis. He had like all this stuff in his life, and and anyway, he's like, Oh my goodness, I can stand up straight. He stands up straight, and he's like, I'm healed. And we were like, What? And we didn't even know he had scoliosis. And he he's like, Yeah, I've never been able to stand up straight and put my knees together, and he could put his knees together and he could stand up straight. We were like, Wow, Lord, you're amazing. You just healed him.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so as we're doing a deliverance, a lot of times, uh, and and we use a worksheet that we've created, um, and they'll fill out paperwork, Holy Spirit will allow us to put on the worksheet, and then we'll just start checking. Yeah, a lot of people will have it'll be a generational curse of death or something tied to death. In the name of Jesus, there's a spirit of death there. Yeah, I'm here. A lot of times it's just talking out of them. And I'll say, Did you bring cancer in in that house somewhere? Because they call you a house. Yeah. The bladder. In the name of Jesus, there's a spirit of bladder cancer. Yeah, I'm here. Can you carry it all the cancer cells? Yeah, I don't want to. Pack them up. Every cancer cell all combined together is one. You're carrying out every cancer cell, you have no right to be there. Yeah, we cast the demon out, make it carry the junk out of brought in. Is there something else? Is there cancer anywhere else? Yeah, bladder cancer. Yeah. They will just tell you because they like to brag, they'll tell you where it's at. And as we cast it out, yeah, it comes out of the person, and the person is healed, and then we pray after we get done. With the deliverance, we always pray for healing, we pray that they're filled up. Yeah, and so that process is crazy. We see crazy healings through all of that. Yeah, that's amazing. And then it goes to the discipleship. Sure.
SPEAKER_08Yes. Yes. I I love it. Discipleship is so good. If you guys could encourage somebody to chase after Jesus and pursue redemption, what would you say?
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_01Well, the whole deliverance thing brings along evangelistic uh opportunities that are crazy with us. Um, is we're talking to people a lot of times on the street. And you know, they'll they'll say something about being a pastor, and they're like, Well, what do you do? Well, we actually have a ministry that that breaks off evil stuff off people, and people's eyes will get big and they'll go, You deal with evil stuff? I'm like, Yeah, we deal with really evil stuff. And they'll and that's my my open door to talk to them. I'll say, Do you believe in evil, don't you? Oh, yeah, I believe in evil. Do you believe that there's good and evil? Yeah. Do you believe in demonic stuff? Yeah, I believe there are demons. And that's when I'll say, you know, we deal with this stuff all the time. And demons only answer to one name. That name is Jesus. You can't cast a demon out in the name of Muhammad.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_01You can't cast a demon out in the name of Buddha. They do not obey, they do not answer to that name. There is only one name that you can cast a demon out. So if you believe in good and evil and you want to go to heaven and be on the side of good, there's only one God that's going to get you there, and that's Jesus. And so you have to have a relationship with Jesus to get there. And man, we've I don't even know how many people we see to accept Christ.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, last year it was amazing. So that's part of our conversation and our interview processes. Tell me, well, Frank loves to answer the open-ended question.
SPEAKER_01Right before we start a deliverance session.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the open-ended question. A lot of people will say, um, have you accepted Christ as your Savior? Is is are you a Christian? And that's a yes or no. And everybody's accepted Christ, and everybody's a Christian. You know, in America, everybody will tell you they're a Christian. So the question we use is, can you tell me how you get to heaven? People will look at you and go, huh?
SPEAKER_04I know. They're like, what do you mean?
SPEAKER_01What are the answers?
SPEAKER_04What do you mean? They're like, well, um, I'm a good person and I believe in Jesus. I'm like, well, you believe in Jesus, but you know the devil believes in Jesus. And then we're like, what we're trying to ask you is, can you tell us your testimony? Like, how did you come to know the Lord? His is is Jesus Lord over every area of your life? You know, like over your what you watch on TV, over all the music you're listening to, the friends you have, is Jesus Lord over every area of your life? And and and they'll go, some people will go, um, I don't know. One person goes, I don't know what Lord of your life means. And guess what? It's because he wasn't a Christian. And we always, we always talk about the plan of salvation and how that Jesus can change your life, and he is the only way. And and it he'll transform your life for for the better, for the rest of your life. And then you have heaven as your home when you leave this earth. You know, we talk about that to him too. So deliverance is actually a great evangelistic tool because we get to talk to them about their relationship with Christ if they even have a relationship with Christ.
SPEAKER_01Well, we'll see 15, 20 people accept Christ before deliverance sessions every year.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because they'll come and they'll say, Um, yeah, I believe in Jesus. I'll say, Well, Satan believes in Jesus, he has a relationship with Jesus. Yeah, he hates Jesus and he's not going to heaven. Just because you know Jesus and have a relationship doesn't mean you're going to heaven. Satan has all those things. Now, is there anything else? They'll say, Well, I believe you have to be a good person, they'll add to their salvation. Yeah. And I'll say, No, you know, Ephesians 2.8, 9, you're saved by grace through faith. It's a gift of God, not anything that you can do. Yeah. And people will say, Well, I didn't know that. I thought you had to do all this stuff. No, it's by faith, accepting Christ. The things that you do are a result of your salvation.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01And people will get saved. We we we will not do a deliverance on somebody that's not hasn't accepted Christ as their savior. No. So we see people saved all the time through deliverance sessions or or on the street um in evangelism just by by talking to people about good and evil.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then it's cool. A big thing is people, nobody talks about hell anymore.
SPEAKER_04No. The church, a lot of churches do not talk about hell. They a lot of churches have turned to seeker-sensitive churches where they talk about topical things, like um God's love always.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, God's love and how to have joy and how to have grace, but we don't talk about the fear of God.
SPEAKER_04Right. Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_01Right. So, yeah. And what you know, I'll say, you know, a lot of people believe hell is going to be a a big party with their friends. It's just you're going to be alone. You're going to have regret. Yeah. You're going to have pain like you've never had before, but you're going to have memories. And you're going to look back on your life where you had those opportunities and you're going to live with that for eternity. But nobody says those things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that's probably the Baptist in me that comes out, you know, from wait because that's that's why a lot of us accepted Christ as our Savior because we didn't want to go to hell. And then the relationship and the grace and all those things followed, and God is amazing, and He's changed our whole life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But if there were no consequences for speed, I would do 130 miles an hour everywhere I went. But there's consequences for your actions. That's right. And people need to know there's consequences. There is consequences.
SPEAKER_04It's either heaven or hell. It's not, there's no in between.
SPEAKER_01And deliverance does that for people too. Yes. Because we we have a whole thing on our YouTube channel under Finding your Freedom. Um, one of the messages on there is on um gateways to demonic oppression. And there's so much stuff on that video that people are gonna go, Oh, I had no idea. Like video games. So a lot of kids are playing video games now. Okay, so in these role-playing games, they're going on quests to find um fight different things. And so what they have to do is they have to find different things to make potions to operate in a witchcraft spell so that they can fight these things. So they're they're they're finding Eye of Newt and all these things to put all together to do a witchcraft spell to fight against this big thing. They're they're operating in witchcraft, and we do deliverance on these kids in the name of Jesus. Is there a spirit of witchcraft? Yeah, I'm here. How did you come in? I came in from Elder Scrolls. It'll say I came in from the video game that they were playing because they were operating in witchcraft. Yeah, that that demon will open them up to new age stuff as they get older, and they'll try to open up their third eye, and they'll become involved with Reiki, they'll become involved with all these things, all that started back when they were 10 years old playing that stupid video game. So, you know, when you realize these are gateways, yeah, and it changes your perspective on things, and you'd live people live a much cleaner life after deliverance.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01If they want to stay free.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they don't want to open doors, they'll live cleaner. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08I don't, yeah. I personally don't want to go back.
SPEAKER_04No, we don't either.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I mean, and that's we found it.
SPEAKER_08I like living free. I like I like pursuing redemption and chasing after Jesus because He's He's the best thing out there. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yes, you will have peace, you will have joy, you will have, you know, it's such a better life.
SPEAKER_08It's such a better life.
SPEAKER_04It is.
SPEAKER_01It's changed our perspective on stuff like an action movie that we might have watched before.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I can't watch that now. Yeah, that can be a gateway.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, because if it's full of profanity, no, can't watch that because I could get a spirit of profanity from my eye gates watching it. I mean, people don't realize we we we're just really careful. We watch a lot of HGTV and cooking shows and like we cast out demons of profanity that try to cuss at us when they come out. We don't want that.
SPEAKER_01Because the person's opened up gateways and it's just it's part you you call that demon out, and I have to say, in the name of Jesus, I bind your mouth, you're not gonna speak because it it'll just want to be able to do that. And you're like, shut your mouth, it's not allowed. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_08So yeah, that that we really appreciate you coming on and telling us all these amazing stories. This has been a wild and awesome conversation, but we would love to have you pray us out. Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Yes, thank you, Lord.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for for letting us share this today. Lord, above everything else, we just we just want to honor you. We want to glorify you, Lord. We don't want this ever to be about us. It's not about casting out demons, it's not about deliverance, it's not about any of those things. It's about seeing people set free, God. Yes, whether they accept you through salvation, it's deliverance, it is inner healing, all those things, Lord. We just pray right now that you use all of those things in your word, God, that you're glorified in all of this, that it's none of us that are involved in this, that it's all to your glory. We just want to praise you and thank you for what you're gonna do in everyone's life, Lord. Use this in a great mighty way to glorify you. Thank you, Jesus. Amen.
SPEAKER_04Amen. Amen. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, guys.
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